One of these days, I’m going to write about why I think Facebook is a much better implementation of the social networking concept than MySpace. But until then, here’s a conversation with Nikkiana from a few minutes ago, regarding Dana Boyd’s new essay, Friendster lost steam. Is MySpace just a fad?
-
Firas:
i really dislike how danah boyd is all like, ‘myspace rocks!’ just because it has so many users. you might as well say AOL rocks. -
Nikkiana:
hmm.. i never really got that feel off of her… -
Firas:
it’s obviously the charge she’s leading among the technicalites, that interfaces don’t matter, that this doesn’t matter, that doesn’t matter -
Nikki:
because she’s right…. to the AVERAGE 15 year old kid, it doesn’t matter. -
Firas:
i know, and if you’re working on msn spaces or something, maybe you should listen to that advice. but for those of us who care about interfaces ‘cloning myspace’ is the last thing we want to do—we’re in a different camp altogether -
Nikki:
the thing about MySpace is it’s the equivalent of the internet ghetto… -
Firas:
i’m not saying it doesn’t work for them -
Nikki:
MySpace was made popular by normal people. Not nerds. -
Firas:
just saying that saying it works for them doesn’t mean it’s ‘good practice’ in all contexts -
Firas:
myspace runs coldfusion, that’s nerdy! -
Nikki:
yes… but i’m talking about the users. -
Firas:
yeah, i know. ok, let my clarify what i’m saying here. (a) MySpace works for people. Agreed. (b) MySpace’s sucky design decisions don’t hinder its success. Agreed. (c) Everyone should do what myspace does. Disagree! -
Nikki:
But who implied C? -
Firas:
http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2006/03/ultrafast_relea.html -
Nikki:
That said, I predict that MySpace will fade as the current teenage userbase gets older. -
Firas:
i guess my point is that the main thing going for it is ‘social capital’. ie, everyone uses it, hence everyone uses it. -
Firas:
i like how boyd’s analysis focuses on the userbase changes as a reason for friendster’s demise. because it’s like the most important asset of social networking tools—the actual users, not the software they use.
Just because something has a large usage share doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s any good. Just because many of Microsoft’s victims have to use Outlook Express for reading their email doesn’t mean that Mozilla Thunderbird should copy Outlook Express (the very idea is disgusting).
I don’t disagree with Danah Boyd’s analysis of social networking apps (au contraire, I really admire her essays about these things), and I also like Kathy Sierra’s writings in general (I think they’re great, enthusiastic and inspirational.) I agree with the particular conclusion Sierra was drawing in the article, that fast release cycles are good things. But quick and informal development methodology doesn’t necessitate thoughtless design. Your work style in the kitchen doesn’t matter, but wouldn’t you like to produce tasty meals when you’re done?
Sierra ties the 37signals way (fast development) with this quote from her daughter:
She said they respond to feedback, “As soon as you think of something, it’s in there.”
This is the antithesis of everything 37signals preach. Throwing in feature after feature doth not good software make!
So because MySpace ‘worked out’ (ie. sold for millions) doesn’t mean you can dismiss a point by saying ‘well, MySpace does it’. What makes for ‘good software’ is a subjective decision. Here are some characteristics people tend to lump together:
- Widespread
- Popular
- Enjoyable
- Powerful
- Easy to Use
- Revenue-Generating
- Well-Designed
MySpace is widespread, popular, revenue-generating, and enjoyable for its users. Ok. Is it well-crafted? Maybe the fact that it’s users enjoy it suggests that it is well-crafted. I think the best way to put my position here is that I’m in a different faction. As with David Hansson speaking of ‘Enterprise Java Architects’:
So by Enterprise, Architect, and Enterprise Architect standards, this gent must be the top of the pop. Thus, allow me to make this perfectly clear: I would be as happy as a clam never to write a single line of software that guys like James McGovern found worthy of The Enterprise.
If Ruby, Rails, and the rest of the dynamic gang we’re lumped together to represent, is not now, nor ever, McGovern Enterprise Readyâ„¢, I say hallelujah! Heck, I’ll repeat that in slow motion just to underscore my excitement: HAL-LE-LU-JAH!
If the software I like, the software I’m influenced by and the whole user-experience oriented gang we’re lumped together to represent, is not now, nor ever, similar to MySpace™, I say hallelujah!
Related posts:
- Rush Limbaugh Sucks
Although the “Crazy Right-Wing Rant” arena is always crowded, frequent... - Six Apart to buy LiveJournal?
Summary: Whoa, Six Apart is poised to buy LiveJournal!... - The Boston Herald Sucks
If you were to glance at the papers strewn on... - The Community is the Product
Summary: The passion surrounding Firefox is a testament of the... - you and your antiquated scruples.
L:Can I just say right now that Fundraiser Cougars are...
I have always had trouble explaining to people why I think myspace sucks. Thank you for doing just this.
A small update: Sierra’s follow-up post clarifies the issue of ’37signals methods’ vs. ‘As soon as you think of something, it’s in there’. (But I doubt that randomly asking a user what they like about a site elicits responses that are careful enough to parse their words into ‘ask for’ vs. ‘think of’—it’s only natural to like getting what you want.)
But this is all moot anyway, because the whole ethos behind the choices made for MySpace rubs me the wrong way. It’s definitely not an application I’d count among my inspirations.
Howdy — I happen to agree wholeheartedly that… myspace sucks. At least for me, and just about anybody I know who is *not* in their target audience. And you’re absolutely right, my teenage daughter’s offhand comment does not come remotely near a useful model of software development! ; )
The point for me is that she (and all her gazillion “friends” including her small handful of *actual* friends) live part of their lives there, and they it in a way that I cannot pretend to understand, especially given that half her myspace friends are actually designers (and their profiles look no less gaudy than anyone elses).
The other point — I suppose the one I wanted to make, is that for her, this perception of a dynamic, constatly-changing, “as if they read my mind” experience seems important. Then again, it might just have been the only thing that popped into her head.
But there is definitely something to the frequent-changes idea, because it comes up in quite a number of the Web 2.0-ish apps including those by 37signals and the Threadless camp. I believe the word “frequent” and “changes” are both heavily context-dependent.
Thanks for this excellent post!
Kathy: thanks for commenting! I’ll admit that I am a bit conflicted about the fact that a large part of MySpace’s draw is stuff like an internal messaging system that seems to just reinvent email, which I’d be quite resistant to implementing. But it’s what makes people log in several times a day. There’s always something to learn from diverse approaches.
McGovern never said dynamic languages weren’t ready for the enterprise. He acknowledged that Rexx runs on the mainframe for example. He did say that Ruby isn’t Enterprise Ready and challenged the community to respond with fact. So far all the responses were perspective.
It should be simple to point to a large enterprise currently using Ruby in production for an enterprise application. It should be a cakewalk for the Ruby community to prove him wrong.
Roger, my quoting of Hannson was more of a stylistic matter than an endorsement of his post—as in, I respond to the ‘MySpace has lots of users’ argument by noting that I’m playing on a different field from them, the way Hannson responded to the ‘Ruby is not enterprise-ready’ argument by saying he doesn’t care what McGovern considers enterprise-worthy. (Although, upon considering the point, the analogy doesn’t really hold because the ‘MySpace has users’ argument is about results, while the ‘Ruby is not enterprise ready’ argument is about processes—you can ignore punditry about processes and win by results, but you can’t ignore results and win by processes.)
It does seem that the community flipped out on McGovern as more as a group-bonding exercise (attacking a charicature) than an academic one (which would be responding to the points McGovern made without being nasty about it). But by the time someone calls themself a ‘Thought Leader on Enterprise Architecture’ many dynamic-language web app types are already rolling their eyes. Like, ‘get out of my way, I’m building real things here’. My Website is Bigger Than Your Enterprise.
PS. This is what happens when you listen to ‘J2EE Architects’.
From Paul Scrivens, back in August 05: MySpace: Is ‘ghetto’ a design choice?
MySpace encourages terrible design; it’s a total hack. Sad thing about Facebook is that it’s only open to .edu email, which some of us don’t have anymore.
Anyway, this is my personal revenge on MySpace and the crap that populates it: http://worstofmyspace.com/
I hate myspace with a passion. For a good spoof site of myspace visit http://www.ilovemyselfspace.com
Mike Davidson went through the horror of styling myspace with good results.
i like myspace in some ways im not stupid im not just on it to say i have it.. Ive had it for 2 years now.. that was way before the fad…. I use it as a second email source..To talk to my friends. Im not on it to date or meet new people. I dont add friends just so i can say i have “this many friends” I only add people i know and know very well. Im sorry that it wasnt like that for you. But im not addicted to it.. Im not just a myspace zombie im just trying to find ways to stay close with my friends when i hardly have time…
Andrea: Yup, I use MySpace too! To stay in touch with friends, for now, but I can imagine using it for other things eventually. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with adding friends to say ‘look how many friends I have’, or to use MySpace to meet or date new people, or to do whatever you want—I think it’s awesome to have a tool that allows self-expression and connectivity in that manner. My contempt in the post is reserved for MySpace’s interface design decisions; not something most people know or care about.
As for hating on MySpace users and their behaviour, that’s best left for another day
Were do i find some new MS layouts?
Thanks,
Steve
If never lets you on becasue there are so much users
ColdFusion is evil; not geeky. PHP, Python, and Perl are geeky. ColdFusion is like the web scriping anti-Christ.
I f*cking hate myspace. It should be called MyWaste or DieSpace. Everyone on their, especially celebrities are all just a bunch of stupid retards and teen-wannabes who think they’re cool for following a lame-@$$ fad.
Die, MySpace, Die!
You know what I love about MySpace? Printing out people’s profiles and then wiping my @$$ with them. Then when I get papercuts on my @$$-crack, it increases my hatred for the stupid teeny bopper site.
I like myspace but I’m getting extremely pissed off because for the passed few days it hasn’t been working. Probably because it was created by idiots like you guys said.. lol
Oh My GOSH! Im getting so pissed off. the front page of myspace says “myspace is undergowing maintenence” and its said that forever! and they also put pacman on the front page so losers can play it while theyre waiting. rediculous.
MySpace is a terrible website.
Despite their MASSIVE advertising revenue, they still fundamentally fail to get anything right.
It’s very much a freak of nature that something that provides such poor levels of service while not providing anything that isn’t done better elsewhere can be as successful as MySpace.
As for the purported cost of bandwidth and infrastructure, wikipedia doesn’t make ANY advertising revenue, and they have very good infrastructure.
I have yet to see a day pass without some critical feature or other is not “disabled” for security fixes/upgrades. Like right now, the login feature is disabled.
Jesus, haven’t they got any redundancy built into their backend at ALL?
Yeah, I think myspace sucks as well. Everytime I visit somebody’s homepage on there, my browser seems to stop breathing for a while. It would be nice if there was some kind of limit on how much crap can be put on a member’s page. my 2 pesetas.
From Ed – “It’s very much a freak of nature that something that provides such poor levels of service while not providing anything that isn’t done better elsewhere can be as successful as MySpace.”
How about AOL? MTV? Any mall or high school? How about the US govt? There are plenty of such examples of things that are made insanely accepted as good or popular by people who dont know any better.
I don’t see why people say it sucks. I know the design is plain. I know it goes down at least five times a month, but besides that, it’s good. At least I like to think so. Now I never even HEARD of myspace until I started going to a new school north of the town in which the school I used to go to. I too used to say myspace sucks and I’d never get one. But I decided to figure out what the craze was and decided to give it a spin. Now I’m hooked. I check mine everyday. And I leave y’all with this. “If you want some, come get some. Don’t like me, bite me!” – Rick Steiner
(Yes I’m southern, yes I’m from Texas. ^^^^^^)
SCREW YOO ALL MYSPACE ROKKS!
Give it up everyone, MYSPACE IS FREE…So why are yall complaining acting like you pay per month or some shit…Tom is nice enough to license it for free, Hell id pay to be with myspace, I’m sure alot of other ppl would too. Yea, The messaging sucks sometimes, But so does e-mail too..Its technology in general, if you dont like it mabe you shouldnt be on the internet at all…Get a grip on reality and get over it. Thnx
Dave
YO,WHAT UP Y’ALL DIS IS YO’ BOY BOBBY-D AND I JUST WANT TO SAY FUCK MY SPACE,CUZ THAT SHIT IS GOIN’ DOWN,LIKE I SAID THE LAST TIME,MY SPACE IS PHONY IT’S JUST A FAKE-ASS WEBSITE
WITH A BUNCH OF MOTHERFUCKERS USIN’ IT FOR MONEY BY GOIN’ON
THEIR USIN’ THEY INFOMATION,THEY LIFE,WHAT THE DO FOR A LIVIN’ AND TELL EVERBODY ABOUT THEM WHO CARES? I MEAN YESTERDAY ME AND MY FRIEN “OSCAR” WERE DISSIN’ THE WEBSITE SAYIN’ THAT IT’S A PIECE OF JUNK,AND TOM IS AN ASSHOLE,YO IF
Y’ALL NIGGAS WANNA KEEPIN’ SUCKIN’ MY SPACE WELL I GOT TWO WORDS FOR Y’ALL SUCK IT, AND ANOTHER THING “YOU TUBE” IS KICKIN’ MY SPACE’S ASS,SO IF Y’ALL WANNA FUCK WITH “YOU TUBE” GET OFF MY SPACE NOW BEFORE IT RUINS Y’ALL LIVES.
I disagree with the resting of information web sites I rely hate those sights there is all was Spam and popup by just being on there because of the stuff put on to the sub pages of the main sight but some time there is stuff like answers to a test on these pages there are videos which should have never been put up on the web. Servers are not privet even of you put it on privet every time a person opens their account there is trace memory on that place. Even if employees of employers pace something like trade secrets there is all was recognitions of this stuff. We may be free but some people posting are not from Russia to China there is bans on My space. Actors, Bands should do this stuff so that they can promote events and singings and lyrics they have wrought. But people how can we give out our personal stuff when there are theirs and hackers and scammers floating around the web. Black Sabbath, IIRONMADEN, THE GRATFRL DEAD, MEGADEATH loves to give out the words for there songs so we can understand what they mean quote “I’m the Iron man� from Black Sabbath the iron man refers to weapons of mast destruction and war. So I disagree for people to have people invades our space.
i dont like the fact that she said that its the internets ghetto……what is that supose to mean?
dyneeca, I’m guessing she meant that it wasn’t all carefully architected with regards to aesthetics etc. but still organically works for people to hang out about the place.
Anyone else having bother with myspace or is it just my pc?
Last couple of days it seems it wont let me download any song from anywhere.
Anyone having same bother – or anyone how to sort it?
MySpace is the root of all (ok, most) evil. It creates unnecessary drama and will eventually ruin your life if you let the beast in. http://www.myspaceruinslives.com
Every time a MySpace account is created, God kills a kitten. Please, think of the kittens.
Comformity-a sucker for heards and thats myspace. bunch of fakes acting like they all that like most rap music…besides Nas Krs1, pub enemy etc.
I am a YA author who has used myspace extensively for the past two and a half years. I accumulated over 71,000 friends and probably hold the largest author profile on myspace.
I use myspace, primarily, as a means to contact readers of fantasy and to spread word about a novel I’ve written called Luthiel’s Song.
For one thing, I am fanatical about responding to fan mail. Unfortunately, as myspace has a hair trigger policy on spam, due my high daily usage, I was flagged and as of this writing no longer have use of my profile.
I do not use bots. I am not a porn site.
I promote literacy to students aged 11-17 and I write books.
In order to save all my hard work and prevent my profile from becoming deleted, I contacted myspace directly. Not only did it take them three days to reply to my first email, the original message I received stated my profile would be usable again immediately with all changes having set within 24 hours.
24 hours has come and gone but I still do not have access to my profile’s ability to email, request friends, and send comments.
I contacted myspace once more.
Their answer to me — ‘wait another 24 hours.’
All for something I never did in the first place — spam.
I am of two minds about myspace. On one hand, it is a fantastic platform for networking and gives artists like me an amazing opportunity (or so it seems). On the other, profile deletion occurs very often and the reasons tend to be nothing short of arbitrary. In all, I’d say the relationship between myspace and its clientel is adversarial at best.
Despite all of this, I happen to need myspace. I sincerely wish there was another site on the internet that provided what myspace does but without the prospect of an axe hanging over my head if I send replies out to my fanmail.
Thoughts??
You all know what i think we should do. We should gang up on tom kill him and destrroy myspace. The reson i hate myspace is because people spend way to much time on that site. Tom has brain washed people into liking it all you people have probably figured it out and thats why you guys and myself are here.
My brother and my sisters boyfriend are addicted to myspace thats all they do all day is mess around on myspace. Some kids get in trouble at school for going on myspace. It basicaly a cult I mean he practicaly owns them they go on his site every day. So we should send out a virus out to myspace and destroy it.
I don’t even really want to sign on to MySpace much… why bother? So we can read the spam and fake friend requests that clog up the inboxes? It’s like who cares about MySpace anymore. My site http://www.upcrowd.com is way better. Check it out when you want a change! LOL!
hi! MYSPACE ROX SOX!
myspace sucks…its all my bro does its so stupid all u do is talk to ppl i mean u can talk to ppl on this website i mean f that
SUBJECT:MYSPACE F’n SUCKS BIG TIME
PEOPLE WHO PLAY MYSPACE R FAT GUYS EATIN EXTRA CHEESY CHEETOS AND A PACK OF COKE~A~COLA
WEARIN A CHECKERED SHIRT AND A COWBOY HAT LAUGHING HUY HUY HUY HUY TAKE A HIKE…
I don’t care for MySpace because of the constant naked girl friend requests that I keep getting. It just starts to get boring almost. Oh look, another half naked woman “wanting” to be my friend. Come on, leave me alone.
I’ve found a new social networking site that’s out there. It just started up in June. It’s my web site link if you want to check out something new.
The main reason it sucks is because it’s selfish and greedy. It pulls in millions every month & doesn’t really care about its users, just the money it makes.
Another site has been created that changes all that. It actually shares its advertising money with it users & it’s free.
So you could be getting paid for ALL the stuff you do/did on MySpace (& the like) for free.
Come check it out.
http://www.gottayuwie.com
i dont like myspace neither but i do like the concept. here is a better one it has all the features of myspace but with out the clutter and negative features. take a look for your selves. demo account is already set up just click login to try it http://www.friendview.net
Ever since the major labels took over MySpace Music it has gone straight in the toilet. They try to promote CRAP and no one wants to hear it. Go to FACEBOOK. At least no one is trying to shove the music down your throat there and tell you what to listen to.
Yup, sho’ sucks, dem ol’ MySpace! Keep up the good work of telling the world to stop wasting their time (and that of others)